Guide income · West Virginia

How Much Do Fishing Guides Make in West Virginia?

An on-the-water scene from a working guide operation, photographed by Eddyline Anglers in WVEddyline Anglers, WV
New River water with Eddyline Anglers out of Oak Hill. The gorge is the state's headline smallmouth run.
Short answerA presumption reverses who has to do the work. Where a state defines its base positively, silence favours the taxpayer. Here silence favours the state, and you have to point at the exemption.
Key takeaways
  • All sales of goods and services are presumed taxable unless an exemption is clearly provided.
  • The state rate is 6 percent, with a local rate of 1 percent alongside it.
  • Named districts levy a 6 percent excise in lieu of sales tax, and you may file both returns.
  • The accelerated June payment was abolished in April 2025 by Senate Bill 615.
  • A cancelled boat note produces ordinary income, and repossession produces gain as well.

Most states in this run ask whether a guided day has been brought into the tax base. West Virginia starts from the other end and asks whether anyone has taken it out. Its rule is a presumption rather than a definition: all sales of goods and services are presumed subject to sales and use tax unless an exemption is clearly provided. Services are inside by default here, and the burden sits with whoever wants to be outside. The federal rules on a forgiven boat loan are built the same way, and the agency chose a boat to demonstrate them.

Two systems that start from the same presumption
QuestionWest Virginia sales taxFederal cancelled debt
Default positionTaxableTaxable
What gets you outAn exemption clearly providedAn exception or an exclusion
Who has to find itThe sellerThe taxpayer
Headline figure6% state, plus a 1% local rateOrdinary income at your own rate
Where it is reportedCombined return, by the 20thThe year the cancellation occurred
A form arriving does not settle itBoth put the duty on you regardless

The presumption

Everything is taxable until an exemption says otherwise.

The tax division's combined sales and use tax page puts it in a single line: all sales of goods and services are presumed subject to sales and use tax unless an exemption is clearly provided. Sales tax is imposed on the sale of goods and services by the vendor at the time of purchase, and use tax is imposed on the use of goods and services in West Virginia on which applicable sales tax has not been paid.

Time on the water from a working guide's operation, photographed by Elk Springs Resort in WVElk Springs Resort, WV
Elk River water with Elk Springs Resort, out of Monterville. The trout circuit is a separate trade.

Why that phrasing matters more than a rate

It reverses who has to do the work.

My reading, not the division's. Where a state defines its base positively, an activity is outside it until somebody brings it in, and silence favours the taxpayer. A presumption does the opposite: silence favours the state, and an operator who cannot point to an exemption is inside. That is the practical difference between this page and the one on Vermont, whose base is drawn around tangible personal property and never mentions services at all.

What this page does not resolve

Whether an exemption is clearly provided for guiding.

Stated plainly because it is the question a reader wants answered. This page did not research West Virginia's schedule of exemptions and makes no claim that guided fishing is taxable or exempt. What the source establishes is the direction of travel: a service is presumed in, and getting out requires pointing at something specific. An operator here needs the exemption schedule read against their own activities rather than an inference drawn from a presumption. The general shape of that question elsewhere is covered in the page on sales tax and guided trips.

The combined rate

Six percent state, with a local one percent alongside it.

Combined sales and use tax includes both state and local sales and use tax. Municipalities may impose their own, and the division's material on economic opportunity development districts refers to a local sales tax imposed at a rate of one percent. The state rate appears throughout as six percent, including in the treatment of factory-built homes, where a principal year-round residence is taxed at six percent of half the sale price and everything else at the full six.

The districts that swap one tax for another

A six percent excise in lieu of the sales tax, in named places.

An unusual local wrinkle worth knowing if you work near one. Sales of goods and services within a municipality authorised to levy a special district excise tax for economic opportunity development are subject to that excise in lieu of sales tax, at six percent, with the local one percent still imposed. The districts named include Charles Pointe in Harrison County, The Ridges in Mercer County, University Town Center in Monongalia County, The Highlands in Ohio County, Park Place in South Charleston, and the City of Huntington from 1 August 2026.

Working partly inside a district

You end up filing both returns.

The division sets out the split directly. If sales occur exclusively in the district, the local tax can be reported and paid as part of the special district return as a convenience. But anyone selling to a location other than within the district, including from other physical business locations or by delivery outside it, or making purchases subject to use tax, must also file and remit on the combined sales and use tax return. A guiding business with a shop in one place and trips somewhere else can be in both.

The deadline

The 20th of the month after the sales occurred.

Filing and payment of the district tax is required by the 20th day of the month following the month in which the sales occurred, and failure to file or pay results in penalties and interest. Returns and payments run through the division's online portal. A penalty waiver can be requested by letter or web notice, and must state the reason. Refund requests are given ninety days for review before the division expects to be chased.

One deadline that recently disappeared

The accelerated June payment was abolished in 2025.

A change worth noting because it removed a genuine annoyance for seasonal businesses. Effective 7 April 2025, taxpayers are no longer required to remit an accelerated payment for combined sales and use tax in June of each year, following Senate Bill 615. The division records the codification at section 11-15-16(h) for sales tax and 11-15A-10(g) for use tax, each providing that the former accelerated payment provisions no longer have any force or effect. Only the regular monthly return payment is now required.

Unpaid invoices come off the return

There is a bad debt deduction worksheet.

A feature absent from most states in this series. The combined return carries a schedule for a bad debt deduction, alongside schedules for credit memos, adjustments and refunds, and for refund or credit of use tax. So a West Virginia seller who remitted tax on a sale that was never paid for has a route back through the return itself. That is the reverse of the federal position for a cash-basis service business, where an unpaid fee produces no deduction because it was never income.

Contractors from out of state post a bond

A registration and bonding requirement with a specific definition.

Not aimed at guiding, but it shows how the division handles people working here from elsewhere. Nonresident contractors are required to register with the state and post bond to meet their use tax liabilities, a nonresident contractor being a person engaged in contracting who does not have a bona fide place of business within West Virginia or who is not engaged in business within West Virginia. Anyone running trips here from a base across a state line should be sure which category the division puts them in.

The federal half starts from the same place

A cancelled debt is income unless something takes it out.

The federal guidance on cancelled debt is built on an identical structure. In general, if a debt is cancelled, forgiven or discharged for less than the amount owed, the amount cancelled is taxable, and must be reported for the year in which the cancellation occurred. Then come the exceptions and the exclusions. A guide who settles a boat note for less than the balance is standing in the same position a West Virginia seller stands in: taxable by default, and looking for the way out.

The agency's own example is a boat

Bought for business use, repossessed, balance cancelled.

Both worked illustrations in that guidance run on a boat purchased for business use, which is not a coincidence anyone in this trade should ignore. The scenario is a $20,000 boat bought with $2,000 down and an $18,000 recourse note, $4,000 paid down, the dealer repossessing a boat then worth $11,000 and cancelling the remaining $3,000, against an adjusted basis of $10,000 after $10,000 of allowable depreciation. What a hull costs to finance in the first place is set out in the page on financing a boat.

Two numbers come out of one repossession

Ordinary income from the cancellation, and gain on the disposition.

The published result splits into two pieces. In that example there is ordinary income from cancellation of debt of $3,000, being the $14,000 of remaining debt owed minus the $11,000 fair market value of the boat, and separately $1,000 of gain on disposition, being the excess of the boat's $11,000 value over the $10,000 adjusted basis. A guide who loses a boat this way is reporting two different things from one event, on different parts of the return.

Recourse and nonrecourse are not the same event

The note you signed decides the character of the tax.

The second illustration keeps every fact the same except the paperwork. With a nonrecourse note, the amount realised is the entire remaining debt of $14,000, producing $4,000 of gain against the $10,000 basis and no ordinary income from cancellation at all. For recourse debt the amount realised is the fair market value of the property, and ordinary income arises to the extent the discharged debt exceeds that value. Same boat, same dealer, same numbers, different character of income.

The exceptions

Seven of them, and one is aimed at cash basis taxpayers.

The exceptions apply before the exclusions and do not require any reduction of tax attributes. They cover amounts cancelled as gifts, bequests, devises or inheritances; several categories of student loan cancellation and discharge; amounts received or forgiven under student loan repayment assistance programmes; a qualified purchase price reduction given by the seller of property to the buyer; and amounts of cancelled debt that would be deductible if you, as a cash basis taxpayer, had paid it. That last one is the practical route for an ordinary trade payable.

The exclusions

Five, and they cost you something in return.

Amounts meeting an exclusion are not included in income even though they are cancellation of debt income: debt cancelled in a bankruptcy case, debt cancelled to the extent insolvent, qualified farm indebtedness, qualified real property business indebtedness, and qualified principal residence indebtedness discharged before 1 January 2026 or under a written arrangement entered before that date. Generally, excluding debt under one of these means reducing certain tax attributes, including credits, carryovers, losses and the basis of assets, though not below zero.

Insolvency is the one most operators would reach for

And it is measured, not asserted.

Reasoning of mine again. Of the five exclusions, cancellation to the extent insolvent is the one a guiding business in trouble is most likely to be inside, because a boat worth less than its note is a common way to become insolvent on paper. But the exclusion runs only to the extent of the insolvency, and taking it means giving up basis or losses elsewhere through the attribute reduction. It is a deferral dressed as a rescue, and it belongs to an accountant rather than to a decision made alone.

The form that arrives is not the answer

Your duty to report the right number survives a wrong one.

Two cautions in that guidance are worth reading twice. A creditor may send a cancellation of debt form showing the amount and date, and if it is wrong you should contact them, but your responsibility to report the correct taxable amount for the year of cancellation remains regardless of the accuracy of the form you received. And if a creditor continues trying to collect after issuing one, the debt may not have been cancelled at all and there may be no income, which is a situation to verify with the creditor rather than assume either way.

What this means when a boat goes back

A bad year can produce a tax bill on money nobody received.

My conclusion. The worst season of an operator's life can end with a repossessed hull, no boat, no income, and ordinary income to report on the balance the lender wrote off. Nothing about that is intuitive, and it is the single most surprising item on this page. What the same asset is worth if it is sold deliberately rather than surrendered is worked through in the depreciation and resale page, and the decision at the front end in the new against used comparison.

A falling unemployment rate that is not good news

The labour force shrank every month of the half.

West Virginia's headline improves while the components do not. The unemployment rate fell steadily from 4.6 percent to 4.2, but the civilian labour force fell in every month from 782.6 thousand to 773.4, and household employment fell in every month too, from 746.4 thousand to 740.7. Unemployment dropped from 36.3 thousand to 32.8 because people left the count, not because they found work. A rate falling for that reason describes a market losing people rather than one absorbing them.

The guiding sector never got above water

Leisure and hospitality was below the prior year in all six months.

The readings were minus 0.4, minus 1.9, minus 2.1, minus 0.8, minus 0.6 and minus 0.3 percent, negative throughout though improving toward zero, with the level between 70.5 and 71.6 thousand jobs. That makes West Virginia the only state in this series whose visitor sector was under the prior year in every reading. Construction ran strongly positive at 15.0 percent in January easing to 3.7 in June, education and health finished at plus 2.3, and mining and logging at minus 4.4. The federal at-a-glance table for West Virginia holds all of it, extracted 22 July 2026.

One reading to distrust

A single month of government employment moves the whole total.

Worth flagging rather than reporting flat. Government employment sits between 145.3 and 146.6 thousand jobs in five of the six months and shows 155.6 thousand in May, a jump of nearly ten thousand that reverses immediately. Total nonfarm shows plus 1.2 percent that month against 0.4, minus 0.4, minus 0.3, 0.0 and 0.3 in the others. That is the shape of a one-month reporting artefact rather than hiring, and any average taken across the half without noticing it will be wrong.

What the sources leave untouched

None of them describes a season's takings.

A presumption tells you which side of a line you start on and never what the line is worth. A federal topic on cancelled debt describes the end of a loan rather than the trade that serviced it. And a sector of 71.6 thousand jobs holds this one without counting it. West Virginia guiding runs on smallmouth rivers, an Appalachian trout circuit and a muskie niche, and what that last one pays sits in the musky page.

A presumed-taxable season, and a boat that goes back

Arithmetic on published rates applied to invented figures. It assumes no exemption applies, which this page does not decide.

The invented day. A float sold at $560. At 6 percent state that is $33.60, and at the 1 percent local rate a further $5.60, giving $39.20, or 7 percent.

The invented season. 95 such days is $53,200 of receipts, and $3,724 of combined tax.

The invented repossession, on a recourse note. Remaining debt $26,000, boat worth $19,500, adjusted basis $16,000. Ordinary income from cancellation is $6,500, and gain on disposition is $3,500.

The same facts on a nonrecourse note. Amount realised is the full $26,000, so gain is $10,000 and there is no ordinary income at all.

Both routes recognise $10,000. What changes is the character of it, which is the point of the distinction rather than a difference in size.

Not included. Any exemption, any special district excise, all federal income and self-employment tax, and the attribute reduction that follows any exclusion.

Presumedis the word that does the work. West Virginia does not define its base and leave services outside it; it presumes goods and services are both in, and puts the burden on whoever wants out. That is the opposite of Vermont, where the tax is charged on retail sales of tangible personal property and a service is never named. Same activity, opposite starting point.Source: West Virginia Tax Division, Sales and Use Tax
A guide at work during a trip, photographed by King Fisher Guide Services in WVKing Fisher Guide Services, WV
Potomac and Shenandoah water with King Fisher Guide Services, out of Harpers Ferry.

Reading a West Virginia season

Find the exemption before you assume it is there.

Four things follow. Treat the presumption as the starting point it is, and get the exemption schedule read against your own activities rather than guessing from silence. Know whether any of your selling happens inside a special district, because that swaps one tax for another and can mean two returns. Use the bad debt schedule if you have remitted tax on money that never arrived. And understand before signing that a recourse note and a nonrecourse note end differently if the boat goes back. Keeping all of it visible is the job of a bookkeeping routine built for this trade, and the exit is covered in the page on valuing a guide business.

West Virginia against the others

The opposite presumption to its northern neighbour in this series.

Set it next to Vermont, where the tax is charged on retail sales of tangible personal property and a service is never named. There a guided day sits outside unless something brings it in. Here it sits inside unless something takes it out, on the same underlying activity. Set it next to Washington, where the question is not whether you are taxed but under which of fifty classifications, and the three states between them cover every way a state can approach the same boat. Claims and cover when things go wrong are in the page on insurance claims, and the business hub holds the rest.

Nothing above reports what a West Virginia guide charges or earns. The 6 percent state rate, the 1 percent local rate, the six percent district excise, the 20th of the month deadline, the ninety day refund review, the seven exceptions and five exclusions and the 1 January 2026 residence date are published; the $560 day, the 95 day season and the $26,000 note are invented to show the mechanism. This page does not decide whether a guided fishing trip is taxable in West Virginia. It reports the division's presumption and states expressly that the schedule of exemptions was not researched, so the fn-math figures assume no exemption applies rather than establishing that none does. The boat figures in the federal section are the agency's own published illustration, not this page's arithmetic; the separate $26,000 example is invented and is this page's calculation. No federal income tax or self-employment tax is computed anywhere. Whether a specific operator is a nonresident contractor, and whether any exclusion applies to a particular discharge, are questions of fact not decided here. Nothing is said about West Virginia outfitter and guide licensing or about federal credentialing. Verify the current exemptions and the exact treatment of your own trips with the tax division before pricing any of it in, and take proper advice before settling any debt.

How this was checked

The West Virginia material comes from the West Virginia Tax Division, Sales and Use Tax, at tax.wv.gov/Business/SalesAndUseTax/Pages/SalesAndUseTax.aspx, read 27 July 2026, together with its frequently asked questions page at tax.wv.gov/Business/SalesAndUseTax/Pages/SalesAndUseTaxQuestionsAndAnswers.aspx. Taken from the main page: that all sales of goods and services are presumed subject to sales and use tax unless an exemption is clearly provided; that sales tax is imposed on the sale of goods and services by the vendor at the time of purchase; that use tax is imposed on the use of goods and services in West Virginia on which applicable sales tax has not been paid; that combined sales and use tax includes both state and local sales and use tax; that effective 7 April 2025 taxpayers are no longer required to remit an accelerated payment for combined sales and use tax in June, following Senate Bill 615, codified at section 11-15-16(h) for sales tax and section 11-15A-10(g) for use tax, each providing that the former provisions no longer have any force or effect, so that only the regular monthly return payment is required; that the combined return carries a bad debt deduction worksheet along with schedules for sales tax credit memos, adjustments and refunds and for refund or credit of use tax; that nonresident contractors must register with the state and post bond to meet use tax liabilities, a nonresident contractor being a person engaged in contracting without a bona fide place of business within West Virginia or not engaged in business within West Virginia; and that a factory-built home used as a principal year-round residence is taxed at 6 percent of half the sale price with all other sales at the full 6 percent.

On the special districts, from the same page: that sales of goods and services within a municipality authorised to levy a special district excise tax for the benefit of economic opportunity development are subject to that excise in lieu of sales tax; that the authorised municipal rate is 6 percent, in lieu of the 6 percent sales tax, with local sales tax remaining imposed at a rate of 1 percent; that sales occurring exclusively in the district may have the local tax reported on the district return as a convenience, while sales to any location other than within the district, including from other physical business locations or by delivery outside it, and any purchases or items consumed by the business subject to use tax, must also be reported on the combined sales and use tax return; that filing and payment is required by the 20th day of the month following the month the sales occurred, with penalties and interest for failure; and the districts named, being Charles Pointe in Harrison County, The Ridges in Mercer County, University Town Center in Monongalia County, The Highlands in Ohio County, Park Place in South Charleston, and the City of Huntington effective 1 August 2026. From the questions page: that the business registration certificate can also be considered the sales certificate, that a penalty waiver may be requested by letter or web notice stating the reason, and that the division has ninety days to review refund requests. West Virginia's schedule of exemptions was not researched and no conclusion is drawn about guided fishing.

The federal material comes from Internal Revenue Service Topic no. 431, Canceled debt, is it taxable or not, at irs.gov/taxtopics/tc431, read 27 July 2026. Taken from it: that in general, if a debt is cancelled, forgiven or discharged for less than the amount owed, the amount cancelled is taxable and must be reported for the year in which the cancellation occurred; that cancellation may occur if a creditor cannot collect or gives up collecting, and where property secures a debt may occur through foreclosure, repossession, voluntary transfer, abandonment or a mortgage modification; that where a creditor takes secured property in full or partial satisfaction the taxpayer is treated as having sold it, with the treatment depending on whether the debt was recourse or nonrecourse; that for recourse debt the amount realised is the fair market value of the property and ordinary income from cancellation is the amount by which the discharged debt exceeds that value, while for nonrecourse debt the amount realised is the entire nonrecourse debt plus cash and the value of non-cash property received, and no ordinary income results from the cancellation; the agency's two published illustrations, both of a boat bought for business use at $20,000 with $2,000 down and an $18,000 note, $4,000 paid down, repossession when the boat is worth $11,000 with $3,000 cancelled and an adjusted basis of $10,000 after $10,000 of allowable depreciation, giving $3,000 of ordinary income and $1,000 of gain on the recourse facts, and $4,000 of gain with no ordinary income on the nonrecourse facts; the seven exceptions, which apply before the exclusions and require no attribute reduction, covering gifts, bequests, devises or inheritances, three categories of student loan cancellation and discharge, student loan repayment assistance programmes, amounts of cancelled debt that would be deductible if a cash basis taxpayer had paid them, and a qualified purchase price reduction given by the seller to the buyer; the five exclusions covering bankruptcy, insolvency to the extent insolvent, qualified farm indebtedness, qualified real property business indebtedness, and qualified principal residence indebtedness discharged before 1 January 2026 or under a written arrangement entered before that date, with attribute reduction generally required; and that the taxpayer's responsibility to report the correct taxable amount remains regardless of the accuracy of any cancellation of debt form received, and that a creditor continuing to attempt collection after issuing one may mean the debt was not cancelled.

What is arithmetic or commentary rather than quotation. The $33.60, $5.60, $39.20, $53,200 and $3,724 figures are calculated on an invented $560 day and a 95 day season at the published rates, and assume no exemption applies, which this page does not determine. The $6,500, $3,500 and $10,000 figures are calculated on an invented $26,000 remaining debt, $19,500 value and $16,000 basis; the $20,000 boat figures are the agency's own example and are attributed as such. The observations that a presumption reverses who carries the burden, that insolvency is the exclusion a struggling operation is most likely to reach for and is a deferral rather than a rescue, and that a bad season can end with tax owed on money nobody received, are unsourced reasoning and are flagged where they appear.

The labour figures come from the U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics, Economy at a Glance: West Virginia, data extracted 22 July 2026, seasonally adjusted, June 2026 preliminary. The unemployment rate falling 4.6, 4.7, 4.5, 4.4, 4.3 and 4.2 percent; the civilian labour force falling 782.6 to 773.4 thousand; household employment falling 746.4 to 740.7 thousand; unemployment falling 36.3 to 32.8 thousand; leisure and hospitality twelve-month changes of minus 0.4, minus 1.9, minus 2.1, minus 0.8, minus 0.6 and minus 0.3 percent with the level between 70.5 and 71.6 thousand jobs; construction at plus 15.0 percent in January easing to plus 3.7 in June; education and health at plus 2.3; mining and logging at minus 4.4; total nonfarm twelve-month changes of 0.4, minus 0.4, minus 0.3, 0.0, 1.2 and 0.3 percent; and government employment between 145.3 and 146.6 thousand in five months with 155.6 thousand in May are read directly off that table. The statement that this is the only state whose visitor sector was below the prior year in every reading is a comparison against tables already read for these pages, and the characterisation of the May government figure as a one-month artefact is my own reading of the series rather than a BLS statement. The West Virginia table reports no occupational earnings for fishing guides.

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Presumed in, and the way out

Is a guided trip taxable in West Virginia?

This page does not decide that, and it is careful not to. What the division states is the presumption: all sales of goods and services are presumed subject to sales and use tax unless an exemption is clearly provided. The schedule of exemptions was not researched here, so nothing on this page establishes that guiding is taxable or that it is exempt. It establishes which direction the burden runs.

Why does the wording matter so much?

Because it decides who has to do the work. Where a state defines its base positively, an activity sits outside until something brings it in, and silence favours the taxpayer. A presumption reverses that: silence favours the state, and an operator who cannot point at a specific exemption is inside it. Vermont and West Virginia sit at opposite ends of exactly that choice.

What is the rate?

Six percent at state level, and combined sales and use tax includes both state and local. The division's material on economic opportunity development districts refers to a local sales tax imposed at one percent. So the working figure for a taxable sale outside a special district is seven percent, though this page calculates that only on the assumption that no exemption applies.

What are the special districts?

Municipalities authorised to levy a special district excise tax for economic opportunity development. Sales within them are subject to a six percent excise in lieu of sales tax, with the one percent local tax still imposed. The named districts include Charles Pointe, The Ridges, University Town Center, The Highlands, Park Place in South Charleston, and the City of Huntington from 1 August 2026.

Can I write off a client who never paid?

On the state return, there is a route. The combined sales and use tax return carries a bad debt deduction worksheet, so a seller who remitted tax on a sale that was never paid for has a mechanism to recover it. That is the reverse of the federal position for a cash-basis service business, where an unpaid fee produces no deduction at all because it was never taken into income.

What happens if the bank takes the boat?

Two separate numbers, not one. Where a creditor takes secured property you are treated as having sold it, so there is gain or loss on the disposition, and separately there is ordinary income to the extent the cancelled debt exceeds the property's value. The agency's own worked example runs on a boat bought for business use, which tells you how common this is.

Does it matter which note I signed?

It changes the character of everything. On a recourse note the amount realised is the boat's fair market value, and ordinary income arises to the extent the discharged debt exceeds it. On a nonrecourse note the amount realised is the entire remaining debt and there is no ordinary income from cancellation at all. Same boat and same numbers, different tax.

What is the market doing?

The unemployment rate fell from 4.6 percent to 4.2, but not for a good reason: the labour force shrank in every month and household employment fell in every month too. Leisure and hospitality was below the prior year in all six readings, the only state covered here where that happened. Treat the May government figure as a reporting artefact rather than hiring.

Sources & methods

  1. Sales and Use Tax, with the frequently asked questions page, read 27 July 2026 (West Virginia Tax Division)
  2. Topic no. 431, Canceled debt, is it taxable or not, read 27 July 2026 (Internal Revenue Service)
  3. Economy at a Glance: West Virginia, data extracted 22 July 2026 (U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics)

Every figure here is traced to a named public source and checked against it. Licensing, tax, and fee rules change. Verify your state’s current rules with the agency directly before you count on any number here.

Evan Knox
Written by

Evan Knox

I build booking websites and run the ads and search for owner-run fishing guides, one operation per stretch of water. My first guide client, Bowman Fly Fishing, grew its revenue 4x in a year from that work. Field Notes is where I put the straight numbers on the business of guiding.

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